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Elite Veteran
  
Location: Oceanside, CA | I'm going to use this as a "build thread" to document my 2007 Duramaz LBZ/Allison 1000 installation/conversion of #1027. I picked up the powertrain yesterday from Autofox Recycler's in Lancaster, CA. Good group of people there if you're looking to buy modern engine packages.
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | is anyone able to view the pictures?
Answered my own question. They need to be webhosted first..
Edited by LCAC_Man 2015-10-09 10:19 AM
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Len, good luck on your conversion project. You are just starting as I am reaching the end of my conversion. Hopefully the information that I have detailed in my Dieselficatipm of 1046 photo album and the discussion thread will assist you. It can be a full bore conversion with the dash cluster or not but I think you will like the end result. Based on my experience, it will take dollars as you already know and it will take many hours of labor.
I look forward to seeing your coach on the road, |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | A good place to "webhost" the pictures is right here on this site in the Albums section. you can link selected ones from there to your posts.
LCAC_Man - 2015-10-09 8:17 AM is anyone able to view the pictures? Answered my own question. They need to be webhosted first.. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/get-photo.asp?photoid=3438
Edited by LCAC_Man 2015-10-10 6:40 AM
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | BigRabbitMan - 2015-10-09 9:32 PM
A good place to "webhost" the pictures is right here on this site in the Albums section. you can link selected ones from there to your posts.
LCAC_Man - 2015-10-09 8:17 AM is anyone able to view the pictures? Answered my own question. They need to be webhosted first..
is there a way to have them open in the post other than clicking links? Is the attach a file tool functional at all? |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | <img src="http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o599/LCAC_Man/FMC%202900r%201027/P9190006.jpg">
This is too much work..
Edited by LCAC_Man 2015-10-10 8:06 AM
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | After some thought, I'm going to just maintain the photo album and caption the pictures.
Album link is here: http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumid...
I'll just use the thread to note updates to it.
I'm going to leverage heavily off what Stephen has done on his coach, but, as with all of these types of projects will put my own spin on it.
I'm going to be doing a complete EGR system delete, this is for performance, weight reduction, and reduced heat load to the cooling system. I'm going to do an in tank fuel pump (and use an external regulator) to perform the lift pump function. I am toying with removing the vacuum brake system completely and converting to hydroboost. I'm undecided on intercooler solutions, water to air is efficient but capacity/extended use may be a challenge, dual air to air exchangers may be a possibility with some creative locations.
I'm going to replace the original Onan gas generator with a new diesel generator and simply draw off the low pressure regulated fuel to the engine. Undecided on using the chevy dash cluster/steering column.
Many other changes will occur as well. Airbags on all four corners, new house battery/inverter/charger system, rear interior conversion to queen bed with lift cylinders to access storage below...plenty to do.
Edited by LCAC_Man 2015-10-11 9:13 AM
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | 440/727 have been removed.
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Ambitious & exciting! Giver' Len.
Terry
#846 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | Lookin good Len! |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Len, the reason I have done as extensive photo story with extensive captions is to do one of two things. For those like yourself it is to provide a partial roadmap so not everything has to be rediscovered. The other purpose is show those who just think they would like to do a conversion what types of things are actually involved so that they will not start a project that takes them in over their heads. For 99% of the people the 440 is all that they need and they should just drive their coaches and be happy. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Your photo album/captioning has already saved me from making a few mistakes, I would not have realized the value of having the coach jacked up high enough to clear the lift and I would have probably missed having the engine mount towers torched off the donor truck. Eric's warning about keeping all the spacers for the rear grill pieces in order will no doubt save me many hours during reassembly. I'm sure I'll continue to find help bits, right now I'm looking at your cooling fan selection and seeing what else is available.
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Wiring stripped and engine bay degreased and pressure sprayed.
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Drivers side "dounut" crossmember mount and poorly executed coach battery tray removed. New radiator mounts fabricated/installed.
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | New engine in position with temporary mounts. This keeps me from constantly tending the jacks/lift when they bleed down.
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | Since you have temporarily "welded" the diesel engine and tranny in place . . . can all of the interested bystanders assume that whatever was going on with the rear suspension mount BUSHINGS is no longer an issue ?
Thanks for responding, Lou #120 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | There was never anything wrong with those bushings(just owners that didn't know any better and bought into whatever they were told). The 26yr old, grossly under-inflated tires were 90% of the problem, one bad ball-joint on the drivers side was the other 10%. I'm going to be adding airbags on all four corners and Safe-T-Steer (self centering device) at the tail end of the engine conversion so the steering and handling will be completely different. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | Your doing a good job of documenting your project Len...Thanks. Keep um coming!
Dan #850 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Permanent motor mounts and new rear crossmember fabricated starting(temps cut out)here:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
I was low on welding gas so finish welding will be done later.
Edited by LCAC_Man 2015-11-01 6:25 PM
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Nice! Like the bolts; easy-in... easy out.
Give'r!
Terry |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | andy1canada - 2015-11-01 5:22 PM
Nice! Like the bolts; easy-in... easy out.
Give'r!
Terry
Yep, that's what I was after, being able to lower the whole assembly straight down, then roll it out. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | This is how I plan to solve my "no vacuum" for brakes problem: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201459463485?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&s...
I pulled the entire hydroboost system off the donor for my duramax, I'll mount it just above the steering linkage up front. This will allow me to eliminate the vacuum boost system completely. |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | I understand the desirability of this system. It is simpler than the vacuum system, but have you compared the displacement volume of the hydroboost system with the fluid volume required at the wheels? |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Still need to verify, but, I'm feeling pretty good about it. The 2500hd master-cylinder has a nearly 2" bore on(and a huge volume reservoir) it to drive the massive twin piston calipers on the chevy. I'll need to look and compare the brake cylinders bore diameter in the drums to see how close they match up, but, I'd be surprised if they are larger than the pistons on those calipers. |
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Veteran
Location: Canton, (Sixes) GA | I am currently in the process of converting my 71 Malibu to hydro boost. Cammed and tricked 350 not providing nuff vacuum. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | It's a great system, I have it on my 72 Jeep Commando (LS2 powered) rock crawler. I can lock up the 40" tires and still one finger steer it, you need a lot of braking power with 450hp, 4 to 1 transfercase, 4.56 gears, 40" tires and 5000lbs on the trail..
Edited by LCAC_Man 2015-11-03 6:56 AM
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Transmission cross-member fab and installation this weekend, took longer than I wanted but I'm pleased with the design/product.
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Driveshaft, emergency brake, shifter cable and intake work progress starting here:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Intake progress and radiator/shroud/fan mockup:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Fuel tank modified for donor truck fuel pickup, radiator fan shroud modified to two-piece design:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | New Yanmar generator mounting and some exhaust progress:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Engine exhaust completed, intercoolers and fans mocked up, ECM/TCM mounted, new wiring interface box installed, fuel filter mount/adapter installed, generator exhaust completed. Radiator has been reconditioned and is back in place for hose fit up:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Fabulous! Thanks for sharing this with all of us Lenny; another one for the archives.
Couple of questions if I may:
- great idea for the positioning of the coolers but what contingency is there for arresting rocks, dirt, muck ect. from coming up at the cores from beneath?
- can you share a few specs on your little Yanmar (weight, $$$, KW output)? I think it's a mega-cool little unit and I'd also be interested to know how loud/quiet it is with that awesome muffler job you did?
- are you running OEM wiring from the dash and forward relay panel etc. to the new stuff in the back? If so, is that so you can keep all the original dash and instrumentation intact?
Great work Len!
Terry
#846 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | andy1canada - 2015-12-18 6:38 AM
- great idea for the positioning of the coolers but what contingency is there for arresting rocks, dirt, muck ect. from coming up at the cores from beneath?
I'm looking at an expanded metal shield and furnace style filters to keep them clean
andy1canada - 2015-12-18 6:38 AM - can you share a few specs on your little Yanmar (weight, $$$, KW output)? I think it's a mega-cool little unit and I'd also be interested to know how loud/quiet it is with that awesome muffler job you did?
its a 10hp L100 model, probably the most common small diesel engine available, super reliable/efficient. It was a little loud with the factory fart can muffler but hopefully placing the engine well inside the engine bay and adding the second muffler will tone it down enough...it's a wait and see thing. Here's some of the info you asked about: http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
andy1canada - 2015-12-18 6:38 AM - are you running OEM wiring from the dash and forward relay panel etc. to the new stuff in the back? If so, is that so you can keep all the original dash and instrumentation intact?
I'm going to use the Silverado dash cluster like Stephen did, it's just too much of an improvement not to incorporate. I'll have some accessory gauges as well (boost pressure and egt for sure) and I'll be running a Scan Gauge II so that I can monitor inlet air temp, fuel consumption, etc..
Edited by LCAC_Man 2015-12-18 11:07 AM
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Radiator hose fab complete, intercooler tubing fabrication done (tack welded, will get finish weld later), exhaust heat shield fabricated:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | As with all large projects there is some scope-creep. With the addition of air bag assist suspension I've decided to use the engine driven A/C compressor as the air compressor for that (and on-board air) and abandon engine driven air conditioning completely. I'm familiar with converting the sanden compressors for OBA as I have that same system on my LS2 powered rock crawler and it runs my ARB lockers and OBA easily now for 7 yrs. The airbag assist system with make the rig more stable on the road and with 4 corner independent controls help for leveling while towing and at the campsite. The rear bags will be well aft of the differential helping to support the frame rails in an area where they need it.
I will be running dual roof a/c's, one small (9000 or 11000btu) just behind the drivers area to keep cool while on the road, with it being small I'll be able to run it with a newly installed 3000w inverter/charger(or the generator). I'll also have a 13500btu unit for cooling while plugged in (replaces an old 15000btu unit just fwd of the bathroom). I've committed to Hydroboost brakes and have stripped out the vacuum boost system.
Another major change is that with the bedroom reconfiguration I'm going to be adding pass-thru access and storage with two new access doors just below the rear half of the rear side windows. This will give me good access to my new air filter position and good storage for my shore power cable (not to mention fishing pole and ladder storage). Progress is steady, if not picture worthy lately but I'm still hoping for some local use come this June. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Continue to chop wood on this, finish weld and paint on crossmembers, moved rear levelers, fabricated, installed new intercooler tank and finally got a good leak free air test (30hrs worth start to finish), redesigned intercooler/trans cooler/fan mount set up, fabricated new trans/engine bay access panel:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Nice work Lenny! Can't wait to see her done and a report on how well it handles. Giver'!
Terry
#846 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Moving into the wiring phase...this will be tedious. Dash has been removed to allow for ease of access to existing wiring and also to integrate the silverado dash cluster, throttle pedal, lighting control and body control module.
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
Edited by LCAC_Man 2016-02-09 7:34 AM
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Bravo Lenny!
Your forward water leak revelation has given me another point of focus for mine. It might not be a windshield leak after all.
I hear you about the 'critter' thing; little buggers can piss you off to no end.
Thanks again for sharing this with us and for the excellent commentary as well.
Working on picking up an HT-413' for mine.
Terry |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I wonder what possessed them to put the water fill there...? Why not just put a fill over on the passenger front corner near the fresh air vent? Running that hose behind and above all the dash electrical is ridiculous.. |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Keep up the excellent pictures with explanation. You are doing a number of things that I had wanted to do but for various reasons was not able to do. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | It's rare I go more than a couple days without referencing your photo album, it's really helped me avoid some costly mistakes.
Slogging through this electrical is going to be super time consuming but I knew that going into the project.
Hopefully the work I do on the dash you'll get some benefit out of.. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Floor patched (from hydr throttle install) and new throttle pedal installed:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Since I'm beefing up the power steering flow/pressure with a PSC power steering pump, I'm wanting to rebuild the steering box. Has anyone ever removed one? Tips and tricks?
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Engine, generator and fuel tank all reinstalled (for good now). Trans and engine oil cooling work as well:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Major milestone met...engine fires and runs like a champ on the first attempt!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=4YGbliSGILc |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | She is ALIVE !!!
Congrats Len, great work. When is the first Match Race with Stephan ?
Lou #120 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | Nice! You bastard. Good job Len. Stephan stopped by my place with 1046 a week or so ago....He was topping some of our local mtn passes at 68 mph....that's impressive! |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | dkarnath - 2016-04-18 ..... Stephan stopped by my place with 1046 a week or so ago....He was topping some of our local mtn passes at 68 mph....that's impressive! Some times you just have to do what you have to do! It was a relatively short, but steep grade and I just had to see what it would do. Len, you will really enjoy how nice it is to merge into traffic at speed and to just roll over hills in the middle or left lane. |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | LCAC_Man - 2016-04-18 11:59 AM Major milestone met...engine fires and runs like a champ on the first attempt!! https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=4YGbliSGILc[/QUOT...Congratulations Len! I remember what it was like when we turned the key on my coach the first time. It fired up just like yours did and we were all greatly relieved and estatic at the same time. Now you will be even more anxious to slip it into gear and go for a test drive! |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I've got a lot of work to do at the dash, finish wiring and new component installation. Also have to get back on the airbag suspension system...going the right direction though!
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Water fill relocation, PCV catch can, rear fairing modification/installation:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Added a couple pic's of the pass-thru cut outs and access panel dry-fits. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Inverter install, dash work, AC wiring, differential shaft refurb:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Mocked up the dash with new gauges/switches:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | I am enjoying the pictures. Keep them coming! |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I do it as much for myself as the group, as I'm going many times I have to remove items that I've installed to work on others, being able to look back at the pictures reminds me of how much space I really have to work with in those areas and keeps me from interfering with them. It's good inspiration as well, some times on a large project you get to feeling that no matter how hard you work it you're not making much progress...a little review of the pictures shows just how much you really have gotten done.
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | LCAC_Man - 2016-06-05 ...a little review of the pictures shows just how much you really have gotten done.
I have gone back and looked at the pictures of my conversion and can't believe I actually did it!! |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | More air suspension work complete: http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | House battery and all disconnect switches installed: http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Finished dash installation/assembly. Started rear panel removal and prep for structural improvements to rear frame:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumid... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Good stuff Lenny! Keep'em coming. Won't be long now till that first puff of smoke hits the tailpipe. Can't wait.
Terry
#846 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Back down off jack stands and mobile under it's own power. Tackling rear sag/structure as well as a few cosmetic issues:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Well? How did it run/drive? Pull like a scared rabbit?
Terry
#846 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | The acceleration from stop is fantastic(I've owned two duramax pickups so I had a good idea of what to expect), I couldn't get up to any real speed but the torque difference is huge! I was most happy that the brakes seem to work well, they are completely different than stock now with the remote hydro-boost system and unproven until yesterday. The air suspension works excellent! |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Raza-raza!
Giver'!
Terry
#846 |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | LCAC_Man - 2016-07-12 7:05 AM The acceleration from stop is fantastic(I've owned two duramax pickups so I had a good idea of what to expect), I couldn't get up to any real speed but the torque difference is huge! I was most happy that the brakes seem to work well, they are completely different than stock now with the remote hydro-boost system and unproven until yesterday. The air suspension works excellent!
It is really great when they move as expected!! Good news on the braking system. I have kept the hydro-boost master cylinder as a potential future change to my coach. Right now, I am just enjoying traveling in it. Right now I am in Michigan and have put 11,678 miles on my Duramax. I have been running the stock engine tune to date, but have now switched it to an economy tune just to see how it goes. It does have less of the power that Len talks about so don't know if I will keep running it or not. Len, enjoy the power!!! |
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Contributor
| Truly remarkable work Len! Very impressive. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | It has certainly been a beast of a project...and my allowance for "scope creep" has put me a solid 2 months behind...but...it will pay off in the long run as I won't have to reopen areas that I've closed up.. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Drivers side structural improvement complete (needs spray foam and outer qtr panel reinstall): http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I've been asked a few times "what does it cost to do the Duramax Swap"...
That's a tough one to answer...but...if I contain it to just the engine/trans swap and enough wiring to make that work then I'd say I spent $14-$15k, with the lions share of that being my purchase of the donor vehicle package of material ($9100) which included two transmissions.
But I didn't really try to keep that cost as low as I could have. I bought the most desirable(LBZ and 6spd) of the Duramax/Alison combos, which really isn't necessary.
A good LB7 and 5spd donor package could easily be had for $5500 and would be an excellent choice, the LB7 has no EGR system and is known to get a little better MPG than the LBZ(just get one that has had recent injectors or low mileage). If you sourced one from a C4500/C5500 it would already be equipped with the trans mounted parking brake. You could send your harness out to be modified to run "stand alone" for about $700, then $600 for an upgraded prop shaft, $500 for intercooler...
I think if you tighten your belt, did all the work yourself and controlled the scope-creep you could complete a swap like that for $11k. The key is being able to do it yourself...if you have to hire out/pay shop labor rates you should not even consider going down this path..
I've expanded my project well beyond just the engine and trans with all new air suspension, tires, AGM house batteries, inverter, roof A/Cs, diesel generator, structural mods, converting to hydroboost brakes, etc...so my budget is considerably larger than just the eng/trans conversion..
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | I concur with what Len has said based on my experience with 1046. |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | Break even for a Diesel Engine Conversion for a FMC Motohome ?
Two GREAT current examples Stephan's #1046 and Len's #1027 ! Great power/torque/mileage/range/driveability/miles between fill-up !! And GREAT workmanship by all involved !!!
Stephan's has demonstrated a solid 14 MPG, and Len's will certainly get at least that, perhaps more. Many 440 gasoline powered FMCs get 7 MPG, rarely more, often less.
Current nationwide gasoline is $2.159/gal and diesel is $2.348/gal ( http://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/ ).
If converting our favorite FMC to a Duramax Turbo engine with a 5 speed OD transmission can be done for $11,000 doing all the work "yourself" including some "send out work" as suggested by Len above, then how many miles have to be driven to break even for the CO$T of the complete conversion ?
Please see - http://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tips/gas-vs-diesel-a-calculator-and-my-t...
The calculator there requires something input to the DEF box, so put in $2 for the cost of diesel and put the change (.348¢) and the same fuel mileage for the DEF as the diesel fuel mileage to make it work. (can't divide by zero) (Diesel Exhaust Fluid is required on current diesel engines, but NOT on "your" FMC Conversion)
The actual spreadsheet and the formula used is given as a link on the website, or you can just put in different values of your own choosing, including the "engine conversion" cost.
Break even miles for a $11K diesel engine conversion (doing all the work yourself) of a FMC at today's (8/2/16) gas and diesel cost is 78,000 miles.
How many miles will you drive your FMC this year, decade, lifetime ? You can't ignore the power/torque/mileage/range/driveability/miles between fill-up, but looking at that 78K miles for break even brings up other thoughts . . . the first is something about a $400 saddle on a $20 mule . . . but NOBODY WILL BEAT YOU TO THE TOP OF THE HILL !
Zoom ON ! Lou #120
Edited by hemi354az 2016-08-02 2:18 PM
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I agree with all that.
There is no break even(IMHO), for me it was an issue of capability. I need to reliably/easily tow 7000lbs and I wanted a vintage motor-home that had modern drive-ability. That coach doesn't exist in the market so I have to build it.
The only way to even some of it(cost) out is if you buy(or have) a coach that already needs and engine and or trans replacement and get a good deal, starting with only $5k in the game and adding $11k to do the swap puts you in pretty good shape if you hold on to it for awhile and get some good use. If you already own the coach and are being faced with spending $2000 for an engine rebuild and $1000 for a trans rebuild for stock power train, it may make the leap a little shorter.
Doing this swap to a coach that is in good stock condition and providing good service would be a tough thing to do... in the end you just really have to want the power and be willing to pony up for it..
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | SOME PONY ! More like a Thoroughbred ! Again, just great work !
Lou #120 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Great example of a good donor, this is the same dismantler I bought my package from. You could probably get this in the $4800 range..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-2003-CHEVY-SILV-LB7-DURAMAX-171k-LIFTO...
And here's a higher mileage LBZ...note the price jump
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-Silv-C2500-6-6-LBZ-DIESEL-DURAMAX-LIFT...
Edited by LCAC_Man 2016-08-02 3:25 PM
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Lou's number is about as correct as one can calculate a conversion dollar cost recovery at today's fuel prices. When I started my conversion project, fuel prices were significantly higher, but the calculation still resulted in a mileage number in the 40-50,000 range.
But all of this "cost recovery" calculating begs the question of "What is the cost recovery calculation of buying any motor home?" One has to remember that Return On Investment or Cost Recovery in discussions about motor homes seems a bit out of place to me. Both the original cost, maintenance costs and the cost of my conversion are coming back to me in the form of pleasurable travel.
I have put about 75,000 miles on my coach since I bought it. I think I have gotten a much higher return on my investments, original plus subsequent, than any owner that has only put limited miles on their coach. It's the total dollars divided by the miles of smiles that count in my book. |
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Veteran
Location: Houston, Texas | We agree with you Mr. Stephen, is the "miles of smiles" that can be obtained and maintained,
and for us, one of the most important fact is that now you can travel about twice as many miles
from now on.
Rico & Carmen
397 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Passenger side structural/anti-sag mod complete and foamed:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
Time to get the panel back on. |
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Veteran
Location: Olympia, Washington | Len:
Is the drivers side fiberglass panel in 2 pieces on your coach? #506 runs from the drivers door to the engine 'cover' in one piece. In your anti-sag mod did you remove aluminium framing first and replace it with steel? How did you go about fastening the new steel to the existing aluminium structure? You are doing an awesome job keep up the good work. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | George,
It's a single piece from the door to the engine bay covers.
Yes, I removed the outer boxed portion of the existing aluminum structure leaving just "flatbar" attached to the interior skin. I used #14 self tapping screws (I pre-drilled to make life easier) to connect the steel to the aluminum and then tack welded the heads so they don't ever work loose. I used 1.5" square tube because it fit well, in the high load areas I used 3/16" wall and then 1/8" everywhere else to keep the weight down.
The passenger side is by far the most important, it's where all these coaches seem to sag the most. It makes sense with the engine biased to that side and the frame rail being miter cut for the angle removing some of its strength.
Building in new/improved strength isn't hard. Counter-acting/removing any existing sag is really really hard, that frame rail has had years of being in that sagged/bowed shape so that's its new normal. Even with all I did on the passenger side I still have about 3/16" sag/bow,
with the new structure I doubt that will ever increase but I had been shooting to eliminate it completely. When I started it was well over an inch sag from the door to the rear of the coach.
Edited by LCAC_Man 2016-08-06 9:15 AM
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Yeah, ditto what George said: Great work and thanks again for sharing this cool project with all of us, Len!
I haven't checked my coach for the infamous 'Butt Sag' yet but my butt sure is starting to sag! Welcome to the 60's Terry...
We all know these coaches had the engine canted starboard 10-15 degrees purposefully to balance the rear load of the big-pig Onan they came with. Good foresight there. Another potential reason for more droop on the pass side could be attributed to the opening for the entry door and the lack of horizontal framing there.
If/when I get around to my engine swap I'll do some measurements to see if #846 still has a flat chassis.
Terry
#846 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Terry you don't even need to measure, just stand at the rear of your coach and sight line along the rub rail, it shows it pretty clearly, also every coach I've seen has the "bulge" just forward of the rear window, that's a sure sign of sag.. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | George,
I just reread your post, on the drivers side it is a two piece panel, the split is between the bathroom and kitchen. There's a trim strip there that covers the seam. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Just had a quick lookie at mine and yes there is a bit of a bulge in the rub rail, just ahead of the window; however, what puzzles me is that the rub-rail itself is still - to my discerning eye - level and straight on the elevation plane, regardless that it clearly bulges outward some from the coach. My confusion arises out of the idea that if there is butt-sag (as I understand it to be: the ass end of the chassis has lowered) then the rub rail, too, should show evidence of lowering at the aft end of it. Which it does not appear to be. I should pull a string alone the entire pass/side rub rail to see for sure.
Also, I remember a thread on the Yahoo side a few years back on how to use a string pulled under the coach to check if the chassis has moved.
At this juncture, don't give a shit - I'm driving it regardless.
Terry
#846
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | andy1canada - 2016-08-06 10:48 AM
At this juncture, don't give a shit - I'm driving it regardless.
That's exactly the way I feel about it ...I know I made it much stronger that it was...and now...it is what it is.. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | New forward roof air conditioner cut out complete:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Good job Lenny! I agree on the off-set thing, too. Let the wife bang her head :-)
Terry
#846 |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Same question that Dan has, how did you get the 120 volt current line to that location? Where was your source and route? |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I removed the upper cabinet here: http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
That gave me access to the wire that originally powered the converter(now removed), I cut it and routed it to the inside of the cabinet where I'm installing a receptacle and making the connection for the new leg that goes to the new Air Conditioner.
The cabinet removal was fairly easy...re-installation was a bear...it's damn tough to get those screw holes realigned.. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | andy1canada - 2016-08-10 7:09 AM
Let the wife bang her head :-)
Terry
#846
Girlfriend is only 5'4" with thick shoes...she'd have to jump to get to it! |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Roof Air Conditioners installed and tested:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Veteran
Location: Olympia, Washington | Len:
Do the modern AC units have a provision for fresh air exchange? |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | None that I know of do, they all work on "recirculation" and it's up to you to introduce new fresh air...of course with a 40yr old rig I'd defy to keep that from happening.. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | As some further reference info I put a ammeter on the supply for my forward Coleman Mach 8 Cub 9200kbtu Air Conditioner, running on "High Cool" it only draws 10.7amps(which is 1amp less than it was advertised), it was mid 80's yesterday so that's a pretty good measure of what it needs power wise.
What this means for my overall supply system is that my 270amp alternator can fully sustain the power draw from my Inverter (even at 85% efficiency) at idle where it makes 190ish amps. The inverter doesn't even act like it has a load, it's a 4000watt unit so it's well oversized for the 1200watt load.
My house battery bank is 580ah so I have a good "cushion" for surge.
Edited by LCAC_Man 2016-08-16 10:11 AM
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Veteran
Location: Soquel, CA. | Can you see what it takes when the compressor kicks on, before the draw drops down to 10.7? |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | It just flashes on the meter (I saw 25 amps one time), I couldn't get a reliable reading. It doesn't hard load like a lot of the older/larger units do, it's really smooth. I'd expect it's 2.5 times the running amps though. |
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Veteran
Location: Houston, Texas | Hey Len, great job, looking good....
what is your total length of the motor and Transmission from the rear end yoke ?
Thank you
Rico & Carmen
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Fan selection will vary this but I think mine is 68" total. Both Stephen and I found that it's approx 2" longer than the 440/727 combo. |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Using a V8 makes for a much shorter combination than using an inline 6 cylinder engine. It leaves room for a radiator in the stock position. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | You got me curious about it so I just remeasured it, it is in fact 68" front to back including my gorilla sized fan.
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Rear Bedroom conversion to single queen size started:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Engine bay covers reinstalled and front trim work face-lift:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Lookin' good Lenny. You bringing that baby to the Rally in Or. at the end of the month?
IIRC: those side marker light lenses are from a 68' to 72' GM pickup. Right?
Terry
#846 |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Didn't it feel good to put the engine covers back on! I know it did for me. You are getting close to "road time".
And, YES, coming to the Oregon Rally would be a good first Show and Tell at an FMC rally as we have several mechanic types coming and you and your coach would be the hit of the rally. I have a special spot for you if you are ready to make a reservation!
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I used 1970 Chevy C10 for applicability on the lights. Classic Industries had a sale so I ordered all four side markers and the turn signal lenses with gaskets for all for less than $50 shipped.
I appreciate the optimism...but no way I'm going to make Oregon later this month. I haven't even begun on the appliances or water/holding tank systems, all of which I know have issues..
I have to drop the black water tank and fix at least two visible cracks...oh...and I pulled my diesel generator because I couldn't deal with the vibration and I need to install the new one...in a new spot...in my copious spare time..
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Ok, then we will just talk about all the things you are doing to your coach beyond what I did with mine. But once you are on the road it will all be worth it! |
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Veteran
Location: Olympia, Washington | Oh well we will just have to be satisfied with admiring #1046 instead. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Bedroom nearly complete, and new generator work: http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Again, great work Len.
Making it the way you want it, that's what its all about.
One thing about your genset - great unit by the way - what are the install specs for clearances for keeping it cool? Knowing you, you've already got this, but I'm just curious and hoping you haven't made an oversight like I did.
I yanked my old Onan (anchor) out of the coach and replaced it with a Yammy 6/K that is 200 lbs lighter than the OEM jobby. What a great score, thought.
Bought me a used (read: cheap) motorcycle jack to shoe-horn that sucker up into the Onans' previous domain and with some wiggling here and there managed to get it in.
Flashed her up - electric start, VAROOOM I'm stylin' now! I was amazed at my engineering prowess. Then I decided to go on line and find the owners manual for it so I could get maintenance and tune up specs etc. Had to search for ever but found one and one of the first pics I see illustrates how your not supposed to situate the thing within 3-ft of ANYTHING!
OMFG! I says to myself, wondering if stuffing this pecker into a 200 degree engine house would remotely qualify as a job-well-done? Nope!
Fortunately for me a PO of the coach had installed a switched 8" squirrel cage fan just above the genset, right beside the cold air intake for the Donaldson, that has a 6-ft hunk of 3" hose running off of it. (This SOB moves huge air!) From what I could gather (the PO was a trucker and knew his shit) he simply aimed it at the rad to provide extra cooling when running hot.
So I figured, since the hose was movable, I'd simply aim it at the genset to increase air movement around it while it was running.
Hopefully Terry don't get 'blowed-up'.
Maybe otta' aim that hose at my ear to blow some of them cobwebs off what's left of my brain... so I stop hijacking Lenny's thread like this. Giver' Len!
Terry
#846 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Yeah, I double checked the needed minimum clearance (2" on all sides, and in most cases I have nearly double what was required). The biggest thing was to have the bottom open since that's where the intake pulls from, oil filter and drain, and exhaust exit are located. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Generator install complete and tested, started refrigerator troubleshooting and water supply repairs:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
I also logged my longest test drive so far, 14 miles, got some good steep up and down hills where I could use the tap shift (which works awesome) and got it up to hwy speed with no problems at all. Only new item on the punch list was that I seem to have developed a slight pinion seal leak...which is frustrating as both the yoke and seal are brand new...at least it's relatively easy to get to..everything else was bone dry and I'm getting more confident with it each run.. |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Love that tap shift feature! |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | It was nice to also see how well my intercooler system worked under full boost, I put my boost gauge sensor right in the air horn which is after all the tubing, intercoolers, any restriction, and was still seeing 25psi of boost so I don't have any major restrictions/boost leaks.
After fine tuning the cooler fan temperatures I was controlling my inlet air temps at about 91dg, this of course will change with outside air temps but was a good sign.
Engine coolant temps are very low, while my drive was short I had let it idle for 30mins before I left and never got to the 212dg thermostat temp even on the hill climbs, it seams to want to run at about 180dg most of the time. I only saw EGT get to 950dg but wasn't watching it close enough, nor were the hills long enough to make any assumptions about how hot it might get when loaded and climbing. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Continuing plumbing and completed front spare tire carrier fabrication and install:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Great work again Lenny!
I hear you on the plumbing mess under the sink in these things. When I first had to do work on mine I could hardly get my hands in there and swore there had to be a better, simpler way to achieve what all that crap does. My crap all seems to work okay and apparently most or all of it is necessary so it stays put till stuff starts to break.
Where did you order you spare cover from and are you going vinyl or a hard Continental Kit? I ordered mine from some folks back east (Illinois?) a few years back and they did a superb job at a real good price. Lost the name of the outfit.
Terry
#846 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Just a vinyl cover....some online vendor...we'll see how it looks when it arrives. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Furnace and gray water tank work:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Did you look into plastic-welding? I bought a small hot-shoe iron kit (the hot-air kits are $$$ IIRC) and fix multiple issues with the tanks on #509 a while back. Gotta' make sure you get the right type of welding sticks for the plastic you are dealing with though.
Don't know much about JB product when it comes to plastic. Have you used it before for this?
Terry
#509 |
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Veteran
Location: Soquel, CA. | I had a crack in the black a couple of years back (no, I am not rapping). Tried the plastic weld a couple times done at my local RV service shop. It would only work temporarily. Eventually they recommended oneone of those super-duper tapes and it has held for 2 years so far. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | I think you were rapping Greg....lol. I wonder if the super-duper tape was "Eternabond" tape?....It's super-duper-for-your-pooper-tank..............maybe. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Eternabond is some incredible stuff for sure, I'm sure it will last the life of the tank.
I've used JB Weld for similar repairs many times over the years, it's old school, but it just works, I've never had a leak return when I used it.
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Veteran
Location: Soquel, CA. | I believe you are correct, it was Eternabond. I was skeptical, but it was faster, much cheaper, and so far so good. At this point, I think I would just repeat it if I ever needed to fix the leak again. |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | 3M 5200FC is a Marine Sealant that works even UNDERWATER. EVERY offshore boat has a least one tube of it before leaving the dock. Sealed three cracks in my black tanks 5 years ago . . . still sealed. Home Depot has it.
NO Drip ON ! Lou #120 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | Thanks for that link Lou, I think this will be the product I am going to use to fix my sunroof drain leak on my Land Rover. The 2-part epoxy I used a couple years ago has failed. The epoxy didn't bond to the plastic well. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | The plumbing battle is at it's apex:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Wow, that's likely the 'cleanest' kitchen cabinet floor ever! Once you get the plumbing sorted out you'll sure feel better about things.
Don't throw out that head Len. Up here they are pretty much extinct and there should be some good parts on it still. Mine wouldn't hold water in the bowl any more so I had to replace the entire blade-valve assembly and the RV outfit that ordered it for me - in business for over 45 yrs - said it was the last one he could find.
Yeah, them showers are something to work on; it's like they build the thing expecting no one will ever have to service anything.
Go-Lenny Go! Them highways out there is a callin' you to get that baby burnin' em up!
Terry
#846 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | andy1canada - 2016-10-24 6:49 AM
Don't throw out that head Len. Up here they are pretty much extinct and there should be some good parts on it still.
Really? Why not just replace the damn thing, they are clownishly low and and a new(plastic thetford) one can be had for $100...I just bought a porcelain replacement for $135 shipped.. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Apparently they are one of the best of the old school plastic genre.
Just sayin'...
Terry
#846 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | If someone wants to pay the shipping they are welcome to it. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Plumbing work nearly done, should get the gray tank back in today.
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Ok Len, you are now progressing to the point that you need to make your reservation for the Feb 17-20 FMC rally in Castaic. I will be there and I want to look your coach over very closely to see which of the things you have done that I have not that I may want to do in the future.
See you there, |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I plan to attend that one...I think it's close to being "camp-able"! |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I've had a tough couple days, the water storage tanks are a total nightmare: http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
At this point I'm considering junking the upper tank and going with a smaller off the shelf rectangular replacement...
I'm going to take it to a local plastic welding/fab shop tomorrow and see if it's worth fixing, three of the larger fittings will have to be replaced and a large vertical crack will have to be repaired...and that's just what I know is wrong..
On the bright side all my water service and both my black and gray tanks are tight and dry and my new dump and flush systems are leak free...also I actually had a single appliance work with no repair...the hot water heater fired up and worked flawlessly with no drama at all.. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Water tank repaired, reinstalled. New drain line/valve installed and working tank level panel and some rat chewed lighting circuits:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | New TV/Radio antenna and windshield wash system installed:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I spent some time over the weekend working on my drivers door entry light circuit, I found that the door plunger switch was worn so badly that it was shorted to ground in all positions, previous owners must have decided it wasn't worth fixing and disconnected the power (somewhere that I couldn't find) and at some point the rat chewed the wire that ran up to the switch...oh yeah...the bulb was burned out too...so, it was pretty much broken in every possible way.
Back to the door switch...the factory one has 5/16"-18tpi and you can use a mid-60's GM A-body application as they are a match. The threads on mine were stripped so I used a early 70's chev C20 truck application(NAPA DJ6402) that has 3/8" threads and just tapped for the larger size. |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | I believe that both the driver and passenger door floor lights should come on if either door is opened. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | BigRabbitMan - 2016-11-29 9:19 AM
I believe that both the driver and passenger door floor lights should come on if either door is opened.
It does on #850 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I don't think I have one (a floor light) for my passenger side door(I do have two plunder switches on that door though), it may have been deleted during the early-90's interior refinishing.. |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | Len, the curb side door on #1027 was reworked, maybe to make the top lower so the "full length" awning could be installed. That may have been when the light(s) for that door got deleted. A receipt for that work, but no details, was in the pile of "work" receipts" that I went thru for Nano. A second plunger switch could have been for an electric step. Step ON ! Lou #120 |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | My coach has 4 floor lights. One at the driver door, one at the passenger door, one on the passenger side of the wall just before the step up into the bedroom and one on the face of the step up to the driver/passenger area forward of the kitchen. The driver/passenger door ones work with either door. The one just before the bedroom works from a switch at the rear edge of the closet wall. Ostensibly, the one forward of the kitchen should have worked with the same switch as the bedroom/hall one to provide light when walking around at night without turning on an overhead light, but it has never done so. In the course of investigating the non-operation of that light, I discovered that the only wire attached to it is a ground wire. No positive wire anywhere near it.
I have two plunger switches at the passenger door. One for the step and one for the floor light.
So I have a NOS floor light already installed! By the way, those light fixtures are still available at your local RV supply place. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Lou,
Thanks for that info, I hadn't thought about the awning/door work impacting that. That full length awning is in the twilight of it's life. I'm probably going to go with a 10ft Fiamma F45s replacement and have it all behind the door.
While we're on the subject, what does the switch between the two closet doors do? It doesn't seem to control anything on my coach. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | I have a rocker switch Len that is on the bedroom side of the closet "near" the doors that controls the two foot "night" lights like Stephen described...one light up front, and one by the rear step up into the bedroom. |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | LCAC_Man - 2016-11-30 7:54 AM While we're on the subject, what does the switch between the two closet doors do? It doesn't seem to control anything on my coach.
It wouldn't be a proper FMC without at least one "mystery switch"! Three possibilities come to my mind: the floor lights as Dan describes, the power to the makeup vanity on the rear side of the closet, or the power to the closet lights.
If you haven't solved it by the time of the rally, we can enjoy a lot of speculation at that point! |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | xx
Edited by LCAC_Man 2016-12-06 12:42 PM
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Veteran
Location: Bethune, SC | What wheels do they fit? The dimensions in the Ebay listing were confusing.
Henry |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Henry, I moved that post over to the "Traders Market" where it was supposed to go.
They are for the Alcoa wheels. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Dome light, clearance lights, microwave and other electrical installs:
http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p... |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Had to pull the prop shaft yesterday as my once "weeping" pinion seal leak developed into a "puddle maker"...can't tell you how happy I was to tackle that 500ftlbs pinion nut again....but with the new original "Meritor" seal installed this time it's nice and dry back there now...maiden camping trip to San Clemente (on base campground 20 miles from home) happening tomorrow; just a local two nighter to christen her! |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Have good camping trip. Test runs should always be local if possible. Give us a report when you get back. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | Happy trails to you |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Successful first trip wrapped up today. Everything worked great and we had two beautiful 70dg sunny days on the beach at San Onofre. I've got plenty still to do but it's nice to know this is an "operational" FMC again. Probably been every bit of 10yrs since this thing logged it's last "camping" event.. |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Congratulations! You now are almost to the pure joy part. I look forward to camping with you at the February rally in Castaic. |
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Veteran
Location: Olympia, Washington | Stephen and Len:
How about a gross weight fully loaded and ready to go. Driver and passenger weights in place, full fresh water and fuel, empty gray water and black water tanks. Gross weight and all 4 corner weights maybe even a gross combination weight also. I am curious on Len's rear side to side balance, how much effect did relocating the APU have? Did battery placement balance it back out? How much weight difference side to side is acceptable? How close can you get to 15,000 pounds without going over? How about we all properly weigh our coach and compare notes.
George 506
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Good to hear you finally got out in her, Len. You did a whack of seriously impressive work on it with well thought out choices. Hope you feel good about it. Will be good also to get some mpg stats after you've fine tuned it all. You given any thought to having it dynoed?
The weight thing I think is important, too. What sort of leeway we have to alter the balance of these coaches remains a mystery to me as well. Certainly anything we can get out of the 'butt' should benefit things overall.
If/when I do my engine swap I plan to keep as accurate a record as I can of how much it weighed before and after. So far my Yammy genny swap has shed 200/lbs alone.
Happy New Year to all of you!
Terry
#846 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Weighing my rig is on my list of things to do. I'll probably do 3/4 tank of fuel, 1/3 tank of FW as that is closer to what I'd travel with.
I will tell you that a big part of my decision to install air suspension at all 4 corners was to counteract any unintended balance issues (and then of course the ability to tune ride height while towing). I haven't seen any of that yet and have just been running the rear bags at 60psi, fronts at 30psi and the coach rides true/level, I have individual controls for each bag so if I need to I can tune a particular spot.
If I can find a place that will do 4 corner weighing for a rig this size I could get that kind of info, but, so far as I know there are only standard truck weighing scales here locally. I think Redlands Truck has those scales, maybe in conjunction with going to the winter rallye I'll try and swing in for that.
My Onan Gen is 265lbs, going in the location where the two original air conditioners were(I'd imagine the two of them exceeded 270lbs), so the major impact of that move would be the reduction of weight in the drivers rear corner, my thoughts are that change would only bring positive results.
I have two roof A/Cs now that are near centerline, the forward one is smaller and weighs less than 70lbs, the rear (which is really close to true center both front/rear and side/side) is 75lbs.
While I'm running two 50lbs chassis batteries, I moved them 5ft forward and put them (nearly) on the centerline (slightly biased to the drivers side). Probably not much affect there at all.
The intercoolers/fans/transcoolers and equipment storage that is now in the old APU spot might be 75lbs total.
I moved the shore power cable and transfer switch 3ft forward.
Shifting the 100lbs of spare tire/carrier from the rear bumper to the front, trading the 120lbs of factory house batteries for 400lbs of AGM batteries, and swapping the 45lbs AC/DC converter for a 78lbs Inverter/Charger all had the desired impact, which was to provide increased front tire weight and improve steering control. I can cruise at 70mph with two fingers on the wheel and it's stable and smooth. The addition of the "Safe-T-Plus" stabilizer no doubt helped significantly.
Removing all the factory engine driven air conditioning hardware must have been a 250lbs reduction
Removing both hydrovacs and replacing it with a single hydroboost was probably a 70lbs reduction.
Adding the anti-sag structure in the rear had to have been a 175lbs increase, and the air bag structures another 100lbs increase.
The bedroom rework probably added 100lbs.
I made so many changes that its hard to look at a single item as "the difference".
The scales will tell the truth..My guess is 14,800lbs.
I've searched for post with coach weights and haven't found a single one with actual weights. Do you know of anyone who has done what you've proposed?
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Terry,
I don't have any plans to dyno it. There is so much dyno data out there on LBZ duramax engines that I know with the tune changes I made(duplicates of dyno proven tunes) and the complete EGR delete that I'm within 5% of 400hp/750lbs torque at the crank, with the allison and pusher config, drivetrain loss won't be more than 20% so I'd bet I'm putting 320hp/600lbs to the tires.
Stephen's reports on performance are the same as what I've experienced...the only thing that restricts your use of the skinny pedal is common sense and fear..
Cooling was my biggest concern of the entire project, I still have a lot of testing to do but my rig runs really cool, like 175dg most of the time, but, I haven't towed with it yet so we'll see what that brings..
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Thanks Lenny! Sounds plausible to me.
Bonneville Salt Flats! New 'Motorhome Speed Record'?
In a Class-A category, I think you'd need to best this: http://autoweek.com/article/other-motorsports/front-drive-gmc-motor...
A set of very tall 22.5" wheels should help the cause, too.
I think one of the requirements for qualification - should be that you have to have at least 4 other guys on board eating nachos and doing Tequila-shooters during the run!
Terry
#846 |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | LCAC_Man - 2016-12-31 6:17 AM ...the only thing that restricts your use of the skinny pedal is common sense and fear..
Various people over time have told me of various ways of increasing the HP and Torque of my Duramax. But, I have not done so as Len's statement is exactly true. Running with the stock tune (and I have a Banks tuner installed!), I have no need for more power or torque as I have already reached (or passed!) the bounds of common sense and approached fear with the stock and economy tunes I have been running over the 18,000 miles I have put on my unit since the install. Note that with the Banks tuner I can add 60hp with a touch of a button, but I have not felt the need to do so! Given that the driveline to ground system anticipated the approximately 350 ft.lbs. of torque of the 440, the stock 650 ft.lbs. of the Duramax is all that I want to put through those components.
As to the weight question, I weighed my coach prior to the Dmax install. My coach was not stock at that time so these are not stock coach weights. I have not weighed it since the install, but here is the information about my coach to this point in time. I do intend to weigh it again, but I have been having too much fun in the meantime. My last trip home from CA a month ago was run at 72-73 mph most of the way on the flats as I was trying to beat the forecast snow in the mountains (I did!). The coach handled fine. I do notice the added rear end weight on fast corners.
Here is the weight information that I have for my coach:
**************
FMC 1046 weights as of 4-8-2011 prior to Duramax conversion.
Current set up is a Chrysler 440 with an Allison 540 transmission and Edelbrock MPI fuel injection. The transmission caused the engine to be moved 1.5" rearward from the stock position. Stock radiator converted to 6 rows. A 120 pound internet antenna is centered on the roof near the front. The generator is an Onan Marquis 7000 (290lbs.)
At the time of weighing, the fresh water tanks were full (they are to the right of the centerline near front axel) and the waste tanks empty (they are to the left of the centerline in front of the rear wheel).
Also, to weigh the left side the coach was driven half on and half off the scales. There was a small difference in height so the coach was slightly tipped to the right which would cause a slight weight bias to the right that would not be there if everything was truly level. The right side weight was derived by subtracting the left side weights from the axel weights. It was a segmented scale so the axel, left side and total weights are all actual scale weight and not calculated.
Cat scale, Dixon, CA
Left right
Front: 5,200 2,480 2,720
Rear: 9,500 4,480 5,020
Total: 14,700 6,960 7,740
Frame rail height from ground before and after engine (440 w/Allison) removal:
Left Right
Before: 21” 20 ¼”
After: 21 3/8” 20 ¾”
Rise: 3/8” ½”
Frame rail height from ground before and after Duramax (w/Allison) installation.
Before 27 15/16" 27 3/16"
After 27 ¾" 27 1/8"
Drop: 3/16" 1/16" Note: Generator not yet reinstalled.
2 months: 27 ¼" 26 5/8" Ready to close engine compartment two months later.
Drop 11/16" 5/8"
Note: It is possible that some sinking of the coach jack stands occurred in the two months as they were readjusted at the time of the installation measurements and the surface is compacted dirt/gravel and not concrete.
***************
My request would be for someone (George?) to go weigh their stock coach and start an FMC Weight thread. Then others with various modifications can weigh their coaches and add to the thread. I will weigh mine on my next trip and put those numbers in the weight thread.
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Note that the column formatting in the above post got mangled by the system, but you should be able to figure it out! |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | How many people on the maiden voyage said "What is that thing??" |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I'd imagine most do...LOL! I think I actually have everything figured out now, the "mystery switch" I have in between my two closet doors is in fact the floor lights on the step ups(they are both disabled now until I do the flooring project), and the missing dome/door light was behind the screen door frame so you couldn't see it, it was also disabled.
I've got a punch list of stuff to take care of before February, getting the fresh water level sensing working, deciding if I want to install the power step or stay with a small stool, getting the leveling system reinstalled and working, and getting my scooter lift carrier installed, fit checked and road tested are among those. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Solved my water level sensor issue by removing the plywood side cover off the lower tank inside my forward storage compartment. Jig sawed an elongated hole about an inch wide nearly the full height of the tank so I can see the water level through the slot at a glance. Trusty felt pen to mark 5 gal increments and Bob's yer uncle.
The toggle switch on the dash has been re-purposed to activate the passenger ejection seat. The system works perfectly but I still have to cut a hole in the roof though as the 'ejectee' will need clear passage to yonder places...
I digress.
Going to add another water tank to my coach one day as these things don't carry enough water.
Happy New Year all!
Terry
#846 |
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Veteran
Location: Olympia, Washington | How are the fresh water tanks configured in the later models? 506 has one tank under the passenger seat (like Len's) and the other is under the front end where the later models have the AC condenser. |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | Duh . . . http://www.fmcmotorcoach.com/files/Parts_manual/34_Water_System.pdf |
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Contributor
| amazing work. would you like to do coach #1033? |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Both of us would go broke, seriously, unless you have the space, tooling, skills,time and funding up front, this isn't the kind of swap you want to tackle. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | A follow up post now that I'm completing a 1700mile trip where I'm towing 6700lbs through the mountain grades of California/Nevada/Arizona/Utah. The use of a clutch on the cooling fan is an unworkable situation, to have a fan large/aggressive enough to move the needed volume of air you completely defeat the holding power of the clutch in the "locked up" condition. At the halfway point I pulled the fan, drilled and pinned the clutch so that it's direct drive...problem solved...I went from seeing mid-240's on long 7dg climbs (I'm at about 23klbs total) to a highest of 192dg on the same grades and a static operating temp of 172dg for normal flat driving(was mid-180s with the clutch). I also need to invest in better clamps for my turbo charger flex couplings...I popped a boot (2 times on the same one) during sustained 20lbs boost grade climbs(which will scare the snot out of you).. |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | I am also in the process of converting to a fixed fan. I also will also be increasing the size of my fan. These Duramax's have the power but to make power you also make heat! I can also relate to blowing the turbo tube. Going up the Cuesta grade north of San Luis Obispo I blew mine off on the way home from the Feb rally. LOUD pop and the power disappeared! Only did it once in 20,000 miles.
But fun to drive!
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Stephen,
You won't believe the differences in temps...I had worried about extra noise but it proved not to be the case...it's still really quiet(though it probably will cost some MPG). I should have paid attention to some of the reviews on those tubing/boot kits that said the clamps weren't the same quality as the rest of the parts... Thankfully it was an easy one to get to and I had brought some extra clamps so it was a 15min roadside fix both times...The extra 2500lbs of my rock crawler over our ford escape really brought out the loading difference...I never saw more than 215dg with the escape in tow.
Edited by LCAC_Man 2017-04-24 7:33 AM
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Glad you got her rolling Lenny. Now for some fun!
Terry
#846 |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Len, I did not have spare clamp and when it blew off the clamp took up residence somewhere on hwy 101! I was near the top of the grade so I nursed it over the top to a good parking spot and then used my phone to do a search for parts houses. The closest was 10 miles away. Using light throttle, I was able to easily get to the parts store. They did not stock the proper clamp but directed me to shop that works on trucks and carries truck parts. Since it was Sunday I spent the night in the parking lot. Had them fix it the next morning when they opened.
My takeaway is to periodically tighten the clamps! Also carry a spare clamp. |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | Aircraft and race cars use T-bolt clamps - http://www.partssystems.com/100-stainless-steel-t-bolt-clamps.html
Zoom ON ! Lou #120 |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR |
That's what I have used and all tube sections have a rolled bead inboard of the end of the tube. Still blew it off once. |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | Guess it backfired thru the carburetor . . . |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Yes those look the same as mine, I'm going to research some higher quality versions of the same thing...I was glad to have carried a couple spares even though I didn't loose the ones that came loose..
You were fortunate to be able to limp it...I was at about 7000ft elevation with the jeep in tow...I was happy just to get it off the road...it wasn't going to pull another inch up that grade without boost..
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | Marman was the "standard" when I was in the USAF . . . a long time ago (1963-67)
#55083 is Heavy Duty.
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@aero/documents/...
Clamp ON ! Lou #120 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | Yep, we use them on the LCAC for the bleed air system. Another independent bought out by Eaton.. |
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Regular
Location: Greensboro, NC | Len,
When you did the plumbing in your coach did you remove all of the 1970'S copper? I am in the process of straightening out my 1970'S nightmare had a blowout under the kitchen sink when I got under the love seat in #934 (Party Coach) I found so many bypassed, blocked off and spliced lines that I was really and truly and still am at a loss on where to begin. Any guidance that you or anyone else can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
Chip Rives #471, #721, #934 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | fcrives3 - 2018-02-26 4:28 AM
Len,
When you did the plumbing in your coach did you remove all of the 1970'S copper? I am in the process of straightening out my 1970'S nightmare had a blowout under the kitchen sink when I got under the love seat in #934 (Party Coach) I found so many bypassed, blocked off and spliced lines that I was really and truly and still am at a loss on where to begin. Any guidance that you or anyone else can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
Chip Rives #471, #721, #934
Yes, I gutted it all, and it was painful. Getting the shower valves off and removing the sections behind the shower was the worst of it. The color coded PEX is a dream to work with. the crimp style fittings are incredibly easy to work with and Home Depot/Lowes have a great selection in stock. I haven't had a single leak since..
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