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Elite Veteran
 
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Hey Dicke: if he's havin' trouble whacking it with a hammer, why not try a pool cue? Get right in there through all them wires and hoses and crap. 'Eight-ball, bank off the rotor cap!'
Henry: loved your beautifully articulated analogy of carbs to women. Hell, why not start a 'Carb-porn' thread replete with images of carbs from all over the world in various stages of undress?
I digress.
Hope you guys get this bitch started.
Terry
#846 |
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Contributor
| I agree with the gas vs starting fluid...Used to have a 671 diesel that became addicted to starting fluid. I don't want to get this coach started down that dark road. The only problem with using gas is that if you get a backfire it blows liquid out of the carb which quickly ignites on whatever it lands on. Been there and done that too. For some reason James does not have a working fire extinguisher. Hmmm. So I have been a bit reluctant to have him pour gas in. Told him to go get one and the gas pour should happen today. I understand that the carbs are a pain to get off, but it does not look that tough to me. I would think if the carb is truly "full of crap," there should have been some warning signs. I am thinking about having him remove the lower fuel bowl retaining screw and see what runs out. However I just know he will either lose or break the bolt washer/gasket. At least he has rebuilt carburetors before...5 or 6 times in 2 years on his Yamaha 4 stroke outboard. He probably learned a lot from his mistakes. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Medford, OR | I liked Henrys carb vs. woman too 
The carburetors are not bad to remove, just have to work a little on each side then she's off.
Gas is perfectly safe when a person uses common sense. Only takes a little bit to get a reaction. I like to use a ketchup style bottle and pour gas down the primary vent tube directly into the fuel bowl, but if your having an internal fuel delivery issue, you may still need to put some fuel down the air horn to get a reaction. Keep a rag handy to smoother carb if needed. If anyone is not comfortable doing this, take whatever your working on to a mechanic. We do not need to hear about another FMC burning to the ground.
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Veteran
Location: Olympia, Washington | It's a Holley by golly, maybe the hammer is the right approach. |
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Contributor
| Well another twist....Took a spark plug out, hooked up the spark plug wire, and cranked the engine to check for spark. And guess what happened??? The engine started up with the plug out and he had to run back and turn the key off. Put the plug back in and hooked up the spark plug wire, turned on the ignition switch, again used the remote starter and it would not start. Bizarre!!! The only thing I can figure out is that the ignition circuit from a voltage standpoint is right on the border line of not working and the extra compression of having all plugs in draws it down enough that it is not consistently firing. Yet on another test with the spark plug installed, the plug wire did put out good spark to ground. Also, no obvious smell of raw gas. Since the plug was a little oily, he is putting in new plugs. The ones that he got seem to be a slightly larger plug with same threads and same diameter but he can not get them to thread in. So he is taking them back and getting a better cross reference using one of the old plugs. He used a 1975 Chrysler New Yorker 440 as a reference. Bluntly, if someone would have told me this story, I am not sure that I would have believed it. Maybe if he puts more air in the tires or vacuums the carpet, everything will start working...I will give an update once he gets the plugs in. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | Mine can be finicky too. If I try to start it after its been sitting a week or more and I pump the gas pedal more than once or twice it floods. That's my signal to have another beer or two a let'er dry out a bit.
Sounds like you're makin' headway.
Good luck.
Terry |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | After starting again with a plug out . . . ELECTRICAL ! Short somewhere. HOT WIRE THE THING IN THE ENGINE BAY and get it home. Limp Home ! Lou #120 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | hemi354az - 2015-12-02 5:07 PM
After starting again with a plug out . . . ELECTRICAL ! Short somewhere. HOT WIRE THE THING IN THE ENGINE BAY and get it home. Limp Home ! Lou #120
I agree with Lou, you've probably got an ignition module that is dying. |
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Contributor
| Where can one get an ignition module...that will work with this system. Is there a recommended replacement for this module.
Looking at the schematic there is a by pass relay that connects to the coil. It appears to take the starter input and apply it to a relay that then connects 12 volts directly to the coil and by passes the ballast resistor. Most old systems did not have a relay to do this but directly ran a wire from the starter solenoid directly to the positive lead of the coil. Does anyone know where this by pass relay might be located. It is pictured in the schematic but I am baffled why it would be necessary since a wire would do the same thing. If it went bad that could explain the problem.
As I remember from my early car borrowing days, a jumper from the battery to the positive lead of the coil should hot wire it. I assume that would not cause any problems other than stressing the coil a bit. I not familiar with fmc's transistor ignition system and do not want to make anything worse.
My second problem is I don't want to take the chance of moving it and have it fail at very bad time in an area or place that it would not be safe. At the moment it is now off the road in a parking lot, which is considerably better than the emergency lane of the freeway or blocking a street in a high traffic area with no parking areas. Its home in LA is another gated parking lot that is simply more secure but is primarily for storage until I can move it to Florida. |
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Veteran
Location: Soquel, CA. | The problem with checking for the spark is sometimes you get a spark, but it is not a strong enough spark to start or run the engine. Learned that one the hard way. In that case (in my case) it was the Coil. Plugs are Autolite 23. In my experience, if you just ask them for plugs by the engine or by New Yorker or similar, they will give you the wrong plugs. |
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Contributor
| Tried hot wiring to the positive lead of the coil and still no start. I have to believe that a bad coil is a strong candidate. He will change it out today. Will any parts store ignition module work. |
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Expert
Location: Cottage Grove, OR | I would only change one thing at a time. That way you know what actually fixed it. Hold other parts in reserve. |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | I am assuming that the coil change did not fix it. So Plan B . . . Any NAPA Store will have a ECM(Electronic Control Module) Part # LX101 made by Standard Motor Parts (which used to be Echlin) for about $30.
At any other Auto Parts Store, get a ECM for a 1978 Chrysler New Yorker with a 440 engine.
Don't worry about 4 pin and 5 pin. Just transfer in the new module and RUN IT ! All the Chrysler Modules for all the 70s V8s were essentially the same. Any of them will work.
Drive to LA . . . ONWARD ! Lou |
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Contributor
| The coil did not do it but we still have spark...put gas in carb and still no start. So we have spark and gas and it is cranking but still not running. We also have 4 different relatively new batteries that we have rotated in and the engine does crank over relatively fast. Next is rotor and cap. Then ignition module. Then distributer. Then carburetor. Then...Has anybody put a duramax in a fmc in a parking lot? Will definitely do one thing at a time. I cannot tell all of you how I appreciate your inputs and help. Your support for a new guy is nothing less than awesome. |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Oceanside, CA | I was about to list some of the parts for sale that I removed from my rig for the duramax swap. One of those is the complete ignition module/balast resistor setup with the mounting plate (in this picture): http://www.fmcowners.com/mbbs22/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=127&p...
Engine was running great when removed, I'd take $40 for the setup. Not sure if it's worth the drive down from LA to Oceanside to get it.. |
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New user
| Replaced the ECM and Bam. Worked. Im finally running again! Number 653 is back on the road. Thanks guys for all the wisdom and help! When we bought this thing I didn't realize the support network that came with it!
I did use the 4 pin ECM rather then 5 pin. (it was 10 dollars cheaper) Not sure if i should exchange it with 5 pin now that I know it was the solution. |
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Contributor
| We are now a lot wiser on many things that I never thought we would have to know about. Kind of a crash course on FMC 2900R problems. I hope we will have the opportunity to return the favor with the knowledge we have acquired. You guys are terrific. ...dicke |
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Veteran
Location: Bethune, SC | We have all been there. I just could not believe it was the carburetor even though it is a suspect Holley. Leave the carb alone!!! |
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Scottsdale, Aridzona | We have not succeeded in solving all your problems. The answers we have found only serve to raise a whole new set of questions. In some ways, we feel we are confused as ever, but we are now confused on a higher level and about more important things. Oh I do miss the fun days working Military Advanced Technology for the Gumint . . . Press On ! Lou #120
Edited by hemi354az 2015-12-04 11:35 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Location: Ignacio Colorado | The Chrysler ignition module usually works or does not. Something that gets overlooked is the module must have a good ground. Sometimes you just have to remove the module and clean the mounting screw area of the firewall and module then reinstall it. I would think that may have been the reason for spark but no start. Before the module is tossed out I would plug it back in with a good ground wire attached and see if it fires the engine. My 76 3/4 ton 440 truck has a ground wire soldered to the module case. System works fine now. Bill FMCx5 |
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Elite Veteran
Location: Victoria, BC. Canada | This was a really good thread and I learned a lot here. Glad you got her rolling.
Thanks to all who shared what they know.
Terry
#846 |
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Contributor
| I agree with B. Sitton...Ignition modules tend to work or not work. Since we were getting spark, it seemed logical to put it on a less likely candidate list. After all, the only thing done was to change out an ignition switch with the battery disconnected. Since it started fine 3 times and there was spark at the plugs that looked good, not getting gas seemed reasonable. I did know that it takes a hotter spark to jump a gap in a pressurized environment...i.e. installed in the engine... (something to do with Paschen's law)...so a weak spark was a possible cause. Coil or ECM or wiring... However, my son did not note a smell of raw gas when cranking...Hmmm might be a carburetor problem. Starting fluid and gas in carburetor and still it would not start...probably not a carburetor problem. Coil positive lead and starting relay output lead seemed to mirror battery voltage on starting which tends to eliminate wiring and any relationship to the ignition switch repair. Replacing coil did not fix it. Replacing ECM fixed it. One has to wonder why the ECM choose this moment to fail. I also think that an internal or external grounding problem with the ECM is likely. I will say that the wiring schematics were frustrating since I was viewing the actual wiring from a cell phone picture and comparing it to the schematics that showed something different. The fact that many of you have been through similar problems was invaluable. Based on what we found I might suggest a new coil or ECM to Terry. While I was more familiar with the Chrysler 383 and 413 engines, they tended to be very tolerant of flooding. But I do understand how important it is sometimes to sit down, kick your feet up, and have a beer if the engine won't start. |
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coach 653 automotive fuse/circuit panel location
