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Simple question about engine tempsJump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
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| Bair |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Santa Cruz, Calif. | Since I haven't gotten the 509 up to hiway speeds yet, or a least for a prolonged amount of time, I am watching all the discussion about engine temps and air flow to the radiator and engine. I've seen a lot of suggested fixes to a problem that I don't know I have yet, but I am concerned. We all seem to feel that there is not enough air flow in the slipstream of the coach. There is a vacuum at the rear and the engine/radiators are starved for cool air. So I ask: "How do the big boys do it?" Bear in mind that all these animals use a much larger engine than we do. They all seem to agree: a side mounted radiator on the left side with a sucker fan (I'm supposing) and dumping the waste heat out the back. Notice that there is no protruding venting vanes. All are pitched forward but flush or even recessed with the body. This tells me that there is plenty enough air there. Maybe we need to engineer a side radiator. 1st Pic: an older Prevost 2nd pic: A new Prevost. Upper vent is air intake for engine. 3rd pic: A new MCI. Again, an upper intake for the engine, plus slots in the rear to aid waste heat. 4th pic: A new VanHool. Same as the MCI exceppt the engine intake is lower. 5th pic: a new Country Coach. A smaller radiator on the right side. (OlderPrevost.JPG) (PrevostVents-s.jpg) (MCIvents.JPG) (VanHoolVents.JPG) (CountryCoVents-s.jpg) Attachments ---------------- OlderPrevost.JPG (145KB - 35 downloads) PrevostVents-s.jpg (158KB - 22 downloads) MCIvents.JPG (143KB - 23 downloads) VanHoolVents.JPG (143KB - 26 downloads) CountryCoVents-s.jpg (141KB - 21 downloads) | ||
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| BigRabbitMan |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Cottage Grove, OR |
I actually do not agree with the portion of this that indicates that there is a designed in cooling problem. I also do not understand just what you mean by "... not enough air flow in the slipstream ...". What do consider the "slipstream"? Sides, bottom, rear? The coach was designed with a rear engine and a rear radiator that does not receive ram air. The engineers adjusted the design to allow for that fact. The primary adjustments were to provide a large radiator and a large fan. The fan pushes air from the engine compartment through the radiator while the low pressure area at the back of the coach helps draw air through the radiator. The primary source of incoming air for the engine compartment is from under the coach followed by the side vents. Provided that the radiator is clean and the fins are still attached to the core and viable AND the spaces around the edges of the radiator are blocked so that air can only exit through the grate and not recirculate around the edges of the radiator, no other provisions need be made to have the engine properly cooled by the stock design. Coaches that have a cooling problem usually have one or more of the MAINTENANCE problems noted above. Side radiators are good. They can receive slightly cooler air, but need to be powered in some manner and are more expensive than a rear mounted radiator. In a large coach with solid rear axels it also allows the rear axel to be moved closer to the rear of the coach for better balance and handling. Due to the independent rear suspension of the FMC, the axel in it's case, is already far to the rear as compared to other rear engined coaches. Bottom line: most FMC's that are properly maintained do not have a cooling problem. Most of the ones with a cooling problem have a maintenance problem.
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| Barney and Connie |
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Veteran ![]() Location: Kingsley Michigan | I agree with you Stephan; The only problem is the old technology (brass) radiator in general as they do not get rid of the heat well enough to justfy their enormous weight and therefore inconvienience in servicing by removal. A newer 1, 2, 3 or 4 core Aluminum radiator (as in the bigger rear engine buses/Prevost/etc.) works much better and is light enough to be changed out or repaired, when damaged, without a fork lift. This is also an added benefit to the weight distribution tail heavy problem our machines tend to exhibit. Engineer friends of ours in the Trucking business said that the rear location was not a great location for the radiator but if the engine room had better breathing by more open air vents on both the sides and back side---That the engine room temp would drop by as much as 40 degrees. Listening to this, I removed my top and bottom rear grating over the radiator and have yet to see above 195 on the hotest of days climbing the longest of hills---Next---I will test without the side gratings and record the results. Edited by Barney and Connie 2010-07-06 4:48 AM | ||
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| Bair |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Santa Cruz, Calif. | Barney, could you post up some pictures? That would help us in understanding your cure. | ||
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| Barney and Connie |
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Veteran ![]() Location: Kingsley Michigan | Dale---I have some interesting pictures---of our motorhome setup and of an air boat with a 600 horsepower engine that has an unshrouded 2 core 19 by 25" radiator that really has no close fan---but as you can see---there is one nearby-- (Air Boat.jpg) (Top Hose.jpg) (Bottom mount.jpg) (Top mount to stock shroud.jpg) (shroud support mod.jpg) (Flexalite & Stock water pump.jpg) (Overall bottom view.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Air Boat.jpg (78KB - 37 downloads) Top Hose.jpg (55KB - 25 downloads) Bottom mount.jpg (49KB - 25 downloads) Top mount to stock shroud.jpg (42KB - 25 downloads) shroud support mod.jpg (45KB - 28 downloads) Flexalite & Stock water pump.jpg (51KB - 29 downloads) Overall bottom view.jpg (50KB - 31 downloads) | ||
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| BigRabbitMan |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Barney also has an album on this site with some pictures. Just select albums for Barney and Connie and all of his albums will be there. | ||
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| Barney and Connie |
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Veteran ![]() Location: Kingsley Michigan | Dale--Before this web site cut me off----I had the following to say---- I have some interesting pictures---of our motorhome cooling setup and of an air boat with a 600 horsepower engine that has a stock but unshrouded 2 core 19 by 25" radiator that really has no close fan---but as you can see---there is one nearby---- As for our FMC Setup---I used a 2000 Ford F250/350 19" x 28" x 1 1/2" single core aluminum which---with a slight modification of the existing shroud, mounts and rear louvered panel ( I will find a better looking grating like a Prevost or similar would use---)---makes for some cool running--- A special note here is that with the radiator modification---you lose a ton of weight--and therefore no longer need the huge pillars of support that used to interfere with access and elbows to both sides of the motor. With a new mounting bracket on the alternator---again--you lose a ton of weight by going with a one wire Delco or similar popular unit (that can be found anywhere) and add simplicity to your wiring and lose the interfering top/rear support that the Lees Neville had (and a lot more weight)---Couple this with a stock but more efficient water pump---(see the testing Louis Cruse and Bill Sitton did on this ----) and you have a reliable and roadable setup that can be fixed out of any auto parts store----and you lose the high priced spread----(which was reducing the weight in your walet---). Edited by Barney and Connie 2010-07-09 9:07 AM | ||
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| BigRabbitMan |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Cottage Grove, OR | Barney, I had intended to take a close look at your radiator setup while at Minden, but missed the opprotunity. I appreciate the additional photos. As you are aware, I would like to make engine access easier as well as improve cooling and weight balance. If not a front radiator with ram air as in the older discussion thread or a side mounted hydraulically driven fan setup like Frank's, then a modern aluminum one seems the way to go if one wants make a change. | ||
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| denshew |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Canton, (Sixes) GA | 0890 is a Detroit Turbo diesel with a 6 core brass and has three fans in the engine compartment, 11" left door (cool air to intake), 14" right door and 16" behind radiator, all pullers. They make little if any difference at highway speeds, normally just run the 11". They do reduce cool down time considerably and help reduce heat sink into the bedroom/lounge when parking. If I keep the rad clean, can run 65/70 MPH (2400/2600 RPM) all day and stay between 190 and 205 degrees. This is with 180 thermostats (it has two). Working to get the temp down more...This was on a recent trip with temps in the 90's in Georgia and Florida ..ds | ||
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| Old Yeller |
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New user Location: Manitoba, Canada | Hello As a new FMC owner I have coaches (424 and 517) my question is what is cruising RPM for the 440 engine. Harold | ||
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| BigRabbitMan |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Cottage Grove, OR | There are variences from coach to coach, but it is normally in the 3200-3500 rpm range at 65 mph. Mine is at the low end. | ||
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| Jerry |
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Regular ![]() ![]() Location: Clovis, Ca | We are installing a huge (can't remember the exact CFM number right now) fan on the right side to "wash down" the engine with cool air and provide a very light positive pressure inside the engine bay. This will do two things: 1) slightly increase the airflow through the radiator 2) lower the temperature of the air forced through the radiator It will be a while before we find out how this works. (Engine bay fan 005 reduced1.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Engine bay fan 005 reduced1.jpg (195KB - 27 downloads) | ||
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| Jerry |
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Regular ![]() ![]() Location: Clovis, Ca | Whoa.... When I said "huge" I wasn't thinking about the size of the pic... Sorry for the size. | ||
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| fmc607 |
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Contributor | Can the stock radiator be re-cored with an aluminum core? If so, where can I order one? | ||
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| Barney and Connie |
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Veteran ![]() Location: Kingsley Michigan | It would be a waste to recore---Get a truck radiator---I got a Ford F 250 and Denny got a better one---fits the area of the shroud--as in the pictures above---Runs cool and saves the weight---and is cheap---I paid $60 for mine off of eBay---Denny (denshew) paid more--but got a great one--easy to modify and install-- | ||
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Simple question about engine temps